Pastor Mark

Asking for a Friend - Literal v. Literate: Can We Square Scripture and Science?

John 9:1-12

As [Jesus] walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva and spread the mud on the man’s eyes, saying to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). Then he went and washed and came back able to see.

The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask, “Is this not the man who used to sit and beg?” Some were saying, “It is he.” Others were saying, “No, but it is someone like him.” He kept saying, “I am the man.” But they kept asking him, “Then how were your eyes opened?” He answered, “The man called Jesus made mud, spread it on my eyes, and said to me, ‘Go to Siloam and wash.’ Then I went and washed and received my sight.” They said to him, “Where is he?” He said, “I do not know.”


[I chose this morning’s Gospel, not because I’m going to spend a lot of time unpacking it, directly, in response to today’s question. I chose it – with the notion of Science and Scripture in mind – to simply show the gulf that exists between the life and times of Jesus in the First Century, and our own day and age. And how differently we are invited to understand Scripture because of that.

The short of the long – and the obvious expression of this – is to see how the people around Jesus believed that that man’s blindness was the result of divine judgment for his sins – or for the sins of his parents – and how he was cast-out and ostracized because of it. We know so much more than that now – and so did Jesus, it seems. Which is why his healing – and the point of the story – wasn’t about a health problem or a physical defect.

Just like those First Century onlookers, we want to pretend this story is about sickness or science, when really it’s all about the forgiveness of sins and showing how wide and merciful God’s love and forgiveness was, is, and can be, when we share it.]

Anyway, shifting gears somewhat to today’s question, which came through in a variety of ways from a variety of sources: Grace Notes, some conversations, the Men’s Bible Study crew, and even a second-hand text from one of our college kids by way of his mother.

I had tried to address it when we kicked off our last sermon series – the one from July, about Genesis, and the primeval mythology of its first 12 chapters. I threw out the phrase “LITERAL v. LITERATE,” and throughout that series Pastor Cogan and I tried to unpack the way those stories in Genesis (Creation, The Flood, The Fall, The Tower of Babel) speak to larger, universal, cosmic Truths, even if we aren’t required to receive them as historically or scientifically accurate accounts.

So, here is a list of the several questions we tried to summarize and roll up into today’s single query:

One was a series of non-sequiturs, asking about Creation in 7 days versus Evolution and the Big Bang Theory, dinosaurs, and how people add up the life-lengths and say that is the age of the earth, …etc.

There was a reference to “Talking snakes,” the Nephilim, and the plural use of God in Genesis 3:22 – where God was apparently concerned that Adam and Eve would become like “one of us.”

Did God actually walk in The Garden with Adam and Eve?

How do you reconcile “time” in the Bible, including the ages of people? (Like how did Abraham live to be 175 years? Or Moses 120? Or Adam 930? Or Methuselah 969?)

I don’t want to be too simplistic, or to dismiss the thoughtfulness and concern over these kinds of questions. But I have to say that faithful people – especially rationally-thinking, scientifically-minded faithful people – have been making more of this than is necessary for far too long. It can be fun to do, don’t get me wrong. And there may even be meaning to be found in some of it.

But all of the math, numerology, guess-work and mental gymnastics it takes to “make sense of” what are often nothing more than literary devices or culturally particular context clues or plain-old hyperbole reminds me of the way Swifties dissect Taylor Swift’s liner notes, album covers, wardrobe changes, or even the tchotchkes on the wall behind her during that interview with the Kelce brothers a couple of weeks ago. Again, it can be fun. And every once in a while you might find an Easter egg. But you don’t have to go into those weeds in order to enjoy or find meaning in the music’s big picture.

The short of the long – where the Bible is concerned, is – we don’t need to get into those weeds, do all of that math, or believe that Moses lived to be 120. Or that Methusela died at the ripe old age of 969. Or that Noah built a boat big enough to hold two of every creature on the planet, including the Tyrannosaurus Rex. Or that God jumped off of a cloud to walk with Adam and Eve.

(For the record, even though I don’t believe God left actual footprints in Eden, I did have a moment once at the cemetery in Lindsay, Ohio, where my maternal grandparents are buried, to the degree that I think I know what Genesis means when it says they heard the sound of God “walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze.”)

Nonetheless, we don’t always have to connect all of those confusing, confounding impossible dots, either.

To put it plainly, the Bible is not a science book – and it doesn’t pretend or need to be. Every part of it isn’t a history book, either – and it doesn’t pretend or need to be. The Bible is a book of books – oral history, letters, poems, songs, stories, prophecies, and more, that never intended to be collected, assembled, and bound into a single tome. Humans did that. Male humans – with power and privilege – did that. And we should be wary of what male humans with power and privilege can do with things like science, history, and the stories of people. (That may be another sermon or another day.)

But in spite of that … still … by the grace of God, the Bible is beautiful and points us toward God’s love and plan for creation at every turn – or it should. And that is how I hope we are inclined and inspired to read, receive, and report what we find in God’s word through the pages of Scripture.

Now, bear with me, but another way I have explained this, is to tell the story of my dad’s Caesar Salad. My dad makes a mean Caesar Salad. It’s been a while since I’ve had it, but growing up it was a staple, whenever we had family or friends over for a nice dinner. The dressing is made with, among other things, a raw egg, Worcestershire sauce, a ton of garlic, lemon juice, and anchovy paste. And even though I can picture him whipping up this concoction a million times while I was growing up, I never really realized or thought about what I was eating, until I asked for the recipe, the first time I tried to impress Christa for a Valentine’s Day dinner when we were just dating, 500 years ago, back in the 1900’s.

(See what I did there? That’s the kind of hyperbole that makes a point, without needing to be historically accurate. Bible writers did that too.)

Anyway, the problem was, my dad never used a recipe when he made his Caesar Salad, so his instructions, delivered by e-mail and then over the phone, were more than a little vague. There were no measuring cups or Table spoons involved. It was, “Use one egg or two depending how much lettuce you have.” It was, “Use a lot of garlic. You can’t really use too much garlic.” It was, “Throw in a couple of splashes of Worcestershire sauce.” And it was, “Squeeze a line of anchovy paste into it, about the length of a couple of knuckles.”

Actually, the clearest – and most meaningful – instruction I received that first time around, after giving him grief for how impossibly unclear he was, was when he said, “Mark, you know what it’s supposed to look and taste like when it’s finished. Just make it like that.”

All of this is to say – again – in answer to the question about if and how we are able to square Science with Scripture – is that we don’t have to.

Martin Luther described the Bible as a cradle that merely, but meaningfully, bears the Christ child. And it is a liberating relief for me to say that we don’t worship the words in a book, we worship the Word made flesh, in Jesus.

We worship Jesus – and the unmitigated, radical, counter-cultural, uncomfortable love and grace he shares. The love of God in Jesus is to be the heart and soul and goal of whatever we’re reading into and pulling out of Holy Scripture. We are reading the Bible faithfully – we square science and scripture (or we liberate ourselves from checking our brains at the door or from trying to cram square pegs into round holes) – when and only when, the crucified and risen Jesus, the loving and living God, is what we receive and share through our best interpretations and our most humble understandings of what we find in its pages.

My dad suggested that I'd know it when I saw it, tasted it, presented it, and shared his version of a Caesar Salad with Christa. Throughout Holy Scripture we are invited to see a whole picture of God’s love and grace, in Jesus. Some stories seem harsh and unforgiving. Some are packed with immeasurable grace. So many ancient tales just can’t be reconciled with our modern understanding of how the world works.

But when we toss them all together and when we turn them over in our minds with hearts set on God’s larger story and finished product of love, mercy, forgiveness, and hope, these stories tell a story of grace for the whole wide world that can’t be measured or made sense of, no matter how hard we try to do the math or crunch the numbers. It all only makes sense and measures up by grace, through faith – not because of the words in a book, but because of in the Word of love, made flesh, in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amen.

Asking for a Friend: Do we have to believe in Hell to believe in Heaven?

Mark 15:33-39

When it was noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. At three o'clock, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sebacthani!" Which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" When some bystanders heard it, they said, "Listen, he is calling for Elijah." And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick and gave it to him to drink, saying, "Wait, let us see if Elijah will come and take him down." Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last. And the curtain in the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. Now, when the centurion who stood facing him saw that in this way he had breathed his last he said, "Truly this man was God's son."


When I was a kid, we had a giant pit of sand and dirt in our back yard – about the size of our fire pit, over there next to the labyrinth. We cleverly called it the "Sand Pile" and it was a cheap, tasteless, makeshift version of what more sophisticated people would call a sand box, and we used it for sand castles, mud pies, dirt-track races for Matchbox cars, and whatever else kids who play in the sand, do in the dirt. (I think the Sand Pile started out as some sort of home improvement project at the church parsonage where we lived, but never amounted to anything, so my brother and I, along with our friends next door, co-opted it as a great place for little kids to play.)

What made the Sand Pile cooler than your average sandbox, though, was that it wasn't self-contained. There were no sides, no cover, and no barrier underneath. One day, our neighbor friend had the brilliant idea that we should dig and just keep digging until we couldn't dig anymore. We knew this was going to take some time and I think the four of us decided to make it a summer project. Sometime after we started, I remember my dad coming home from work and noticing that we were up to something more ambitious than usual. When he asked what we were doing, we told him our plans and my friend declared that we were going to dig "all the way to Kingdom Come." We weren’t very sophisticated, but we were ambitious.

And so we dug a little bit each day, for days. We found worms and bugs and rocks of all kinds. We hit water one day, which meant we were really getting somewhere, so that was cool. And then one of us had the realization that if we kept digging long enough, we'd dig our way right into Hell and we wondered if maybe that wasn't such a great idea. We did keep digging, but the expedition ended shortly after that, either because we were scared or skeptical or just plain tired of shoveling. But that was the first time I ever remember considering something like the question someone offered up for this morning:

"Do we have to believe in Hell in order to believe in Heaven?”

When I was older, in High School, and learned about World War II and the Holocaust, I wondered if that might be Hell: the injustice and horror of concentration camps; the gas chambers, the torture, the attempted genocide. Elie Wiesel, likely the most famous survivor of the Holocaust asked once, "How [do you] explain or even describe the agony, the terror, the prayers, the tears, the tenderness, the sadness of the scientifically prepared death of six million human beings? … Six million human beings sentenced to death by an evil dictatorship not because of their faith or their circumstances but because of their very being." It sounded – and sounds, still – like Hell to me, even if it wasn't someplace you could dig your way into.

When I visited all kinds of jails and prisons in college, I wondered if the smell and the heat and the sounds and the danger and the circumstances that led and keep a person there might be Hell.

When I worked as a hospital chaplain for a summer during seminary, I remember a guy who had been burned on over 80% of his body. That looked like Hell, and I wondered if Hell was the sickness, disease, and disasters that consume and kill men, women, and children every minute of every hour of every day in the world.

When I traveled with my family and then with our high school kids a couple of summers ago to the Whitney Plantation, in Edgard, Louisiana, where enslaved human beings were used and abused and tortured and killed, like worthless animals, for generations – Hell seemed very nearby.

Is Hell the war in Ukraine? Is it the famine, starvation, and destruction in Gaza? Is Hell a cancer diagnosis or is the rigors of chemotherapy or radiation – even if they work, but especially when they don’t? Is Hell a broken or breaking marriage; the death of a child; any kind of unbearable physical pain or emotional suffering? Is it paralyzing fear; hopeless loneliness; utter despair?

With all of my questions, I guess you can tell that I don't think about Hell in the same way I did when I was digging around in the dirt as a child. But, from what I can tell, too many people – preachers, theologians, artists, and politicians – haven't moved beyond the sandbox. We hear too often, in my opinion, detailed images of Hell. You know them as well as I do: pictures of fire, deep dark places, chains and shackles perhaps, weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, for sure, and the little guy in the red suit with a pointy tail and a pitch fork with the capacity to inflict pain and suffering on his victims for all of eternity.

And these same people will tell you how to get there faster than any shovel can dig. Instructions usually include breaking the rules or not having enough of the right kind of faith or 'doing faith' differently than what's expected or accepted or, generally, behaving in ways that make God angry enough to send you ‘there’ instead of calling you home to the right side of eternity.

But I don't think any of this is what Hell is like or where it's at. Which is why I picked the readings I did for this morning. There are plenty of references in the Bible to Sheol and the Pit, to Hades and the Abyss. There's lots of talk about fire and punishment and the outer darkness – much of it from the very lips of Jesus himself.

But nowadays, when I think of Hell, I think about the crucifixion and death of Jesus on that Good Friday afternoon. And it's not because of the abuse or the spitting or the whips or the thorns. It's not because of the darkness or the nails or the cross itself, even. It's because of the way all of these things added up to leave him hanging there alone, crying at the top of his voice, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" (Theologians call it Jesus’ “cry of dereliction,” and it’s why we say, as we do in our Apostles’ Creed, that Jesus indeed “descended into Hell.”)

It's at that moment when Hell becomes more real and more scary than any pitchfork or fire pit, if you ask me. It's at that moment when Jesus experiences what many of us have known – or what we fear – more than anything else: being utterly alone, utterly afraid, utterly out of control, cosmically lost, and entirely without hope or faith or comfort – even from God.

It's at that moment when Jesus himself knows fully the hell of every concentration camp victim, every prisoner, every enslaved person, every frightened soldier, every starving stomach, every struggling addict, every dying patient, grieving spouse, scared child, broken heart, and sin-sick soul that ever was or ever will be. "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

So back to the question at hand. I was asked pointedly, if “we” believe in Hell, which seems to include the questioner, myself, and other leaders and pastors and theologians of the ELCA. I won’t speak for others, because I can’t – that’s part of the beauty of what it means to be an ELCA-flavored Lutheran, in my opinion. But I will tell you that, I don’t very much think about Hell anymore these days.

If it does exist, it’s not a concern of mine, because I believe it’s been conquered and undone, dismissed and destroyed by the work of God’s love in Jesus Christ – for me, and for you, and for all of creation. You can cite for me every Scripture and verse there is about Hades and Sheol, about the outer darkness and The Pit. But I believe there is a Hell the way I believe there are K Pop concerts, hot dog eating contests, and white pride parades. They may very well exist, but I don’t – and won’t – ever have to show my face there, thanks be to God.

We can find plenty of pictures in the Bible and elsewhere to scare each other into believing that Hell is as likely an option as Heaven or that damnation is as likely as grace. And there are lots of pastors and churches who will fan that fire with gusto and glee, but that's not what the Gospel promises.

To suggest that we can faithfully choose Heaven… To suggest that we can faith-LESS-ly opt for Hell… To suggest that we can reject God’s willingness to love us all the way through Hell and back and remain in our sin and death, despite God’s clear desire to win us back… is to suggest that God is powerless over evil, that God is powerless over death, that God is powerless over Sin, that God isn’t all God is cracked up to be and that the very death and resurrection of Jesus was a cosmic waste of God’s time. And I don’t buy it.

I don’t buy it because when Jesus cried, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me,” he was quoting the first line of Psalm 22, which he knew well. So he must have known how Psalm 22 ends, just the same – with the hope of God’s promised dominion, deliverance, power and provision. Verse 24 promises, “He did not despise or abhor the affliction of the afflicted; he did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him.” By invoking Psalm 22, what if Jesus wasn’t just announcing his despair and descent into Hell’s separation? What if he was declaring his hope for the Heaven that was to come, just the same?

My adventure in the Sand Pile as a kid that summer didn't end just because we were scared of what we might find. I think it ended because, even as kids, we realized our digging wasn't leading us anywhere but down – and that’s exhausting. It didn't take us long to learn that there was more life and fun and good news in the other direction – and that's where we chose to spend our days.

Which is why and how and what we believe about Hell matters for our lives in this world.

When our faith is motivated more by fear than it is by hope, we're heading in the wrong direction. When it comes to our journey of faith, I hope we'll remember and share as often as we can that the Gospel is about life conquering death. The story of Jesus is about God conquering Satan. The promise of our faith is that Heaven conquers Hell – whether we like it, would choose it, or not. And the call of our faith is to live and to love our way into Heaven, not to run away from a Hell that isn't ours to fear any longer, thanks to the God we know in Jesus Christ, crucified and risen for the sake of the world.

Amen